I’ve Written My Last Article for 4GuysFromRolla

Published 29 March 11 11:32 PM | Scott Mitchell

Warning! This blog post is long and rife with navel-gazing.

In 1998 I started an ASP resource site, 4GuysFromRolla.com. Toward the tail end of the dotcom boom I sold 4Guys to Internet.com, but continued working as the editor and primary contributor for the site, writing a new article each week. This arrangement continued until just recently. My last article for 4Guys has been written – Use MvcContrib Grid to Display a Grid of Data in ASP.NET MVC.

The Beginnings

My first exposure to web programming came in 1998 working at Empower Trainers and Consultants, a mid-sized consulting and training firm with locations in Kansas City, St. Louis, and Nashville. At the time I was an inexperienced, nervous, 19 year old sophomore at the University of Missouri-Rolla (UMR) who had landed an 8-month internship with Empower at their Kansas City location. My first assignment was to add some new features to the internal timekeeping tool, a custom-build data-driven web application powered by SQL Server and ASP. At the time I had done some rudimentary HTML development, but had zero experience with JavaScript, ASP, and SQL.

Needless to say, I found ASP enthralling. The ability to quickly create an application that could be shared with the world amazed me then as it continues to amaze me to this day. At the time there weren’t many online resources for learning more about ASP. As my internship drew to an end I decided that once I got back to school I would start my own site rich with ASP information.

Upon returning to university I cajoled three good friends into starting a website, 4GuysFromRolla.com. The idea was that the site would boast four sections:

  • ASP Information
  • Programming Information
  • Linux Information
  • Humor

If you couldn’t guess, we were four witty computer nerds (with an emphasis on the nerd part).

In September 1998 4GuysFromRolla.com went live. Over time, the other three guys lost interest and moved onto other projects. By the time I graduated in May 2000, 4GuysFromRolla.com was run by one guy from Rolla and focused strictly on ASP.

Sale to Internet.com

The dotcom boom reached its fever pitch in 2000. Companies were paying $5,000 a month for a little 125x125 banner to appear on the 4Guys homepage and $500 for a two sentence text ad to appear in the weekly newsletter, not to mention the thousands of dollars per month companies were dropping to have their animated 468x60 banners in the rotation to appear at the top of each article. The spending frenzy also extended to the acquisitions side, as numerous ASP resource sites were gobbled up by larger players.

In late 2000 I decided to “cash out.” 4Guys was sold to Internet.com.

I wrestled with the decision on whether to sell the site or not for a long time. On one hand, 4Guys was my baby and I had poured uncounted hours into it over the previous three years. Having seen how sites like 15Seconds.com fared after their acquisition, I knew that selling 4Guys would be akin to signing its death warrant. When a larger company buys a smaller site it’s not uncommon for the original founders to exit stage right, either immediately or in the very near term. When that happens, and when the acquirer starts to turn the screws in an attempt to better monetize their purchase, the inevitable happens – the site withers on the vine, traffic languishes, and the death knell is sounded. On the other hand, by late 2000 I think it was pretty apparent to everyone that the dotcom boom was coming to an end.

In the end, I decided to sell. The sales price reflected more than five years of dotcom boom revenue, which I deduced would be more like ten or more years of revenue once the boom ended. At age 22, five to ten years is an unimaginable window of time. I wondered, Would I be interested in writing about ASP ten years hence? Would I even be using ASP or web-based technologies? Since the answers to those questions were “maybe,” I decided to take the bird in the hand over the two in the bush.

Of course, here we are, 11 years later, and I am still actively involved in ASP.NET and the ASP.NET community and, until recently, was still writing for 4Guys. If I had it to do over again (and knowing what I know now), I would not have sold the site. Hindsight is 20/20. But that’s not to say that I regret the decision to sell the site – I don’t. In fact, I still hold that it was the right decision at the time given the unknowns.

The Buying Eyeballs Business Model

The dotcom boom heralded an interesting time in the history of the web. At its peak, billions of dollars were spent buying traffic, or “eyeballs,” as it was commonly referred to back then. In 2000, companies like Internet.com and DevX (among many others) were buying technology resource sites not for their content or talent, but for their existing traffic. This was a workable business model at the time due to the high rates advertisers were paying. Unfortunately, it was not sustainable once the bottom dropped out of advertising.

In 2009, Internet.com and its hundreds of technology-focused websites were sold to QuinStreet for $18 million. I continued working on 4Guys for QuinStreet (until recently). Unfortunately, QuinStreet’s purchase was a continuation of the buying eyeballs business model as evidenced by the lack of investment in the purchased web properties. 4Guys retained its dated look and feel as even more ads were squeezed onto the page.

Sites like 4Guys were sold by Internet.com to QuinStreet for pennies on the dollar. Even at such a steep discount, the question remains: did QuinStreet overpay? Time will tell.

Withering On the Vine

After the sale of 4Guys to Internet.com in 2000 I continued on as the site’s editor and primary contributor, authoring an article each week. Despite my continued work on the site, 4Guys started to lose prevalence in the ASP.NET community. There were many times I talked to a developer at a User Group or at a conference who would say something nice like, “I taught myself classic ASP from your articles on 4GuysFromRolla.com - I used to go there all the time.” The message was always the same – a meaningful compliment that had embedded in it a reflection on the current state of the site - I used to visit 4Guys.

There are probably a lot of different reasons why the importance and relevance of 4GuysFromRolla diminished over the years. Some of the reasons I’ve arrived at include:

  • My predominant use of VB code samples (rather than C#). In recent years, I started writing more C#-focused articles, as well as articles with code samples in both VB and C#, but the majority of articles on 4Guys are VB-only. And my switch to a more C#-friendly style came long after C# had become the de facto .NET language.
  • Increased attempts at monetization. More ads, bigger ads, flashier ads, and more annoying ads all made the site more difficult and less enjoyable to use.
  • A dated look and feel. If you couldn’t guess, the 4GuysFromRolla.com website hasn’t had a site redesign since 2002. It just looks old and dated. I’d like to think that the quality and quantity of content can make up for such aesthetic issues, but I understand why visitors would find the site appearance off-putting and why that might make them less likely to return, especially if there was similar content to be found elsewhere, which brings me to the next three factors…
  • The Google. Google turned the Internet upside down. Prior to Google, when faced with a particular problem people would go to a particular site and start hunting (or searching) for a solution. Once Google made search quick, fast, easy, and accurate – something I think happened in the early 2000s – user behavior shifted radically. Now Google was where people went to find answers to their questions. Just ask Jeff Atwood, who notes that: “Currently, 83% of our total traffic [to Stackoverflow] is from search engines, or rather, one particular search engine.” And that search engine, if you couldn’t guess, is Google.
  • A stronger online presence from Microsoft. In the late 90s and early 2000s, Microsoft offered a substandard web presence for their web technologies. There was technical documentation buried somewhere on Microsoft’s website, some articles on their MSDN site here and there, as well as articles from MSDN Magazine that were available online. But everything was scattered and hard to find. Microsoft finally got it right in the mid-2000s when they made MSDN easier and quicker to search and separated out their core technologies into standalone sites – www.asp.net, www.iis.net, etc. This move sucked an appreciable amount of traffic from community-founded sites like 4GuysFromRolla.
  • The proliferation of blogs. Blogs are another technology that made resource sites like 4GuysFromRolla.com less relevant. Intelligent developers with something interesting or useful to share didn’t need to get their thoughts published on your site – instead, they could start their own blog. The explosion of blogs outpaced the demand for information, cutting into everyone’s traffic and relevance.

Of all of the reasons listed above only one of them falls on my shoulders, namely my slow move away from VB to C#. But perhaps there are other factors that are my fault that my ego is blinding me from. I do believe that the quality of writing that has appeared on 4Guys has improved over the years. When I read some of the articles I wrote while I was still in school (1998-2000) I cringe. Also, I posit that the articles’ topics are (relatively) timely and of interest to ASP.NET developers. (To be fair, I was a bit late to jQuery and ASP.NET MVC, but once I jumped on that bandwagon I wrote quite a bit on said topics.)

The increased attempts and monetization and dated look and feel falls on Internet.com and QuinStreet’s shoulders. The last three factors were out of everyone’s control and affected all websites, not just those in my little corner of the web. And those macro changes, while perhaps detrimental to the growth of a site like 4Guys, are net gains for the Internet (and humanity) as a whole.

Neither QuinStreet nor Internet.com has ever provided me with traffic numbers so I don’t have any hard data to back up my thoughts on this, but my presumption is that 4Guys is still used by hundreds of thousands of developers around the world each month, but that it’s become less and less relevant as time has gone on. Today, I imagine that most people reach 4Guys from a Google search or from a link posted on an old messageboard or newsgroup thread. Few visit the site to see what new content is available or because a coworker told them that it’s a great website for ASP.NET developers of any stripe.

Yes, there are still many who find a solution to their problem on 4Guys, but few say, “How do I do X? I bet 4Guys has the answer!”

Some Fun Facts

Is it just me, or is this blog post getting a little depressing? How about some fun 4Guys trivia.

For those who have never been to Rolla, it is about an hour and a half west of St. Louis, located square in the middle of nowhere. The university in Rolla focuses on engineering and the sciences and the student body is predominantly male. Many people wonder how I had the time to write nearly 750 articles while a student at UMR. The answer is that I went to school in the middle of nowhere with no girls - free time was not something that was hard to find!

When we started 4Guys, one of the other 4Guys created the site design. It had a black background with gray text and these bubbles that spanned the top and right of each page with links to each of the four sections. Together, we redesigned the site in 1999 to give it a more professional look. It was at this time that 4Guys adopted teal as its primary color. After acquiring the site, Internet.com did a resign in 2002. The redesign made the site a bit more graphics heavy and added some curved doodads here and there. I always found the 4Guys logo that Internet.com’s design team created to be hilarious.

The guy on the left looks depressed and ostracized from the group. The guy on the right wants nothing more than a big group hug. And those two guys in the middle? They look like a couple of real a-holes. Too cocky and arrogant to console their melancholy friend on the left, and too cool for school to hug the guy on the right. Jerks.

So Farewell…

My time with 4Guys has now come to an end. It was a fun and unforgettable run. I fondly remember huddled around a computer monitor with the other three guys from Rolla as we tried to decide on a domain name. I remember the excitement of landing my first advertiser and of depositing that first check. And I won’t forget the many emails from fellow developers who wrote in to thank me for an article that helped them solve a vexing problem. But most of all, my memories will center around writing the 4Guys article each week – drumming up a topic, banging out some code, and then putting that code into prose.

Having written a 4Guys article each of the preceding 650 or so weeks, it will be odd not to do so this week. Or next week. Or ever again.

Farewell, old girl, it was a good run.

Just to be clear, I am not retiring! I am a writer, that’s what I do. You’ll continue to see articles from me on this blog and on sites like DotNetSlackers.com and ASPAlliance.com. And I am always looking for additional engagements – if you have a need for a technical writer or prolific ASP.NET author, please don’t hesitate to check out my resume and drop me a line.

Comments

# Darren Neimke said on March 29, 2011 03:46 PM:

Fantastic post Scott... 4Guys was my "home" for about 3 years and through the site's articles, I learned many tricks of the trade.  All the best for the future!

# Kent Sharkey said on March 29, 2011 04:06 PM:

Dang. That's an inflection point.

Thank you again Scott, for everything from 4Guys, the MSDN stuff, and what you've yet to write. I wish you continued success!

# jeffa said on March 29, 2011 04:23 PM:

Scott. I've learned so much from you. clear concise accurate complete thorough. Right up to and including the mvcContrib.

Keep your twitter feed fed. And best of luck.

I really appreicate what and how I've learned from your efforts.

# Jeremy said on March 29, 2011 04:27 PM:

I rarely comment on blogs, but I just have to on this one.  Thanks for all your many articles.  I have been using 4Guys heavily since I graduated in 2004 and was thrown in the deep end.  Luckily 4Guys helped me learn how to swim (as I bet it helped many, many developers)!  You are a fantastic writer and I'm sure I'll be reading many more of your articles in the days to come!

# DotNet-Step1 said on March 29, 2011 04:31 PM:

Scott -

I wish you well in your future endeavors.  Oh a daily basis, I would look at my RSS feed for an article to pop-up from you.

# Scott Whigham said on March 29, 2011 04:42 PM:

Wow - congrats on the new future. I think it's a wonderful story and I'm glad you posted this. I wish you much success!

# Doug Adams said on March 29, 2011 04:42 PM:

All I know is that when I Google a problem, I scan the search results for 4Guys because I know if you have covered the topic, the information will be well written and helpful. I have learned much from you, thank you.

# Kerry said on March 29, 2011 04:56 PM:

This post must have felt therapeutically good to write.  Sounds like Internetsssss.com and QuinStreet would've benefited from some of your insight, but the suits always know better - ha! Yeah right.  They really didn't share the traffic numbers with you?!  (Perhaps the 2 guys in the middle of the 4Guys logo are Internet.com and QuinStreet?)

Until recently, I thought you were older (40+), but then I saw a picture of you and was surprised to see that you're around my age.  It's pretty cool that you've accomplished so much already.  I think every asp.net developer knows your name.

One last thing Scott...thanks for the DataGrid articles back in the day.  They were an enormous help!

# Scott Cunningham said on March 29, 2011 05:04 PM:

Many thanks for the education I received while reading your articles!  Coming from a non-programming background, your articles were extremely important in my jump into this world.

Best of luck on your future endeavors and I look forward to reading your future writings!

# Bill Faulkner said on March 29, 2011 05:13 PM:

Interesting post Scott. I have read, and referred others to your articles on 4 Guys, for most of the last 7 years. I know I, and many of those I sent your way, benefited from the information you were providing.

So now I'll add this site to my reader sub list and follow you here. Best of luck for the future. By the way, I think it was a good, smart time to sell 4 Guys when you did it. If you miss that feeling of owning your own 'house' on the net you can always build a new one. Homesteading is still fairly cheap on the wire ;-)

-bill

# Bill Graziano said on March 29, 2011 06:57 PM:

"At the time I was an inexperienced, nervous, 19 year old sophomore"

And it took us all of about a week to figure out you were one of the smartest people we'd ever hired!  You've accomplished a huge amount and you should be rightfully proud.  Thank you for all the help, encouragement and inspiration over the years.  My site certainly wouldn't be what it is without your help (and links!).  Now I just need to avoid falling into the traps you've described.  

I have no idea how you've been able to keep writing articles this long.  It wears me out and I never kept near your pace.

-Bill

# Chip Downs said on March 29, 2011 07:40 PM:

Best of luck.  I have spent many hours on your site over the years and you have always done well!

# Sergio Pereira said on March 29, 2011 07:55 PM:

Scott,

You've carved yourself a permanent spot in VB and .NET's history. I have countless memories of finding answers and learning new things from you well crafted tutorials and articles at 4Guys.

It's great to know you will continue to be providing material for us through other outlets.

# SpragueD said on March 29, 2011 08:09 PM:

You provided a reliable, high-quality resource -- I used it many times in learning skills that were used every day in my career. Good show!

# Haacked said on March 29, 2011 10:17 PM:

It's the end of an era! I can't count how many times a 4GutsFrom Rolla article got me out of a jam at work! :)

Thanks for all you've done for the community!

# Steve Schofield said on March 29, 2011 10:46 PM:

Hi Scott,

I remember one of the first articles I wrote was on returning data from a stored procedure to an asp page.  I think this was one of the first articles on 4guys, I laughed stating "cool", a smart guy also wrote on this! :)   Your thoughts of Google, MS sucking the traffic away from independent sites is dead on.  I remember ScottGu mentioning "wouldn't it be cool to have a MS sponsored base site" :)   This was one of the reasons I got out of http://www.aspfree.com in 2003 (yes 8 years ago) and scary enough, the site is still around in basically the same format (minus more ads).  I'm glad to see you are still going to be around.  Excellent post!

Take care my friend,

Steve Schofield

# Xander Sherry said on March 29, 2011 10:59 PM:

Like so many others, 4Guys and ASPMessageboard.com became an integral part of my life when I got involved with ASP back in 2000.   While I'm sad to see an era ending, I'm excited to see what the future holds, and I wish you all the best.

# Jack Jones said on March 29, 2011 11:30 PM:

This is one of those misty water colored type of geek nostalgia posts. Got a lump in my throat reading it just like when I read about the end of geocities. Good luck in all you do, and thank you for all the articles.  You had a huge impact on more people than you likely realize.

# Jon Galloway said on March 30, 2011 12:34 AM:

Scott, thanks so much for all the great articles over the years. I've always been amazed by how you can maintain the frequency week after week and yet the quality of writing is always high. Like other have said, I learned a lot from 4guys back in the day, but as "the guy who gets to pick the articles for the front page of the ASP.NET site" over the past year and a half, I'm always happy to see another great article from you when I'm looking for quality content. Thanks for all the great content over the years, and looking forward to more of it wherever it may be published.

# Simon Bartlett said on March 30, 2011 02:38 AM:

Hi Scott,

I too do not often comment on blog posts, but this time I felt I had to take the opportunity to thank you. It is true that these days I don't often visit 4guys, but about 7 years ago I found the site a fantastic resource when building classic ASP applications during my last year of school. The knowledge I gained at the time helped me a great deal, and helped build the foundation of my software development skills and knowledge. If it wasn't for resources like 4guys, I don't know what I'd be doing these days - perhaps I'd be doing something completely different! Once again, thank you. Good luck and best wishes :)

# Jef Claes said on March 30, 2011 04:30 AM:

Good story. Wish you the best for your future adventures :)

# Chris Woodward said on March 30, 2011 06:02 AM:

Scott, I've lost count of the number of times 4Guys has helped me when I've got stuck on a particularly tricky programming problem. You are definitely right up there with the greats of technical writing, so glad to hear you are going to continue. All the same I feel that I have "grown up" with 4Guys and feel sad that I will be referring to it less and less in the future. All the best !!

# Lee Timmins said on March 30, 2011 06:36 AM:

Hi Scott, back in the early days when i was beginning ASP 4GuysFromRolla was the best/only resource which helped me pick it up.  Thanks for sharing your knowledge over the years.

# Simon said on March 30, 2011 08:52 AM:

Wishing you continued success and a thought .. 4guys defined what a good programmers resource should be (with some others admittedly). A great resource. I learnt ASP there with a Wrox Press book by my side.

And as Doug mentioned above the .4guys... result in Google guarantees its worth a look.

Good luck!

# Stephen Patten said on March 30, 2011 08:53 AM:

Scott,

Back in the day, you were the ONLY reliable resource for clean, working, and reliable asp code, thank you. Mentioning the rotator took me back to my beginnings as a professional developer, funny how time flies.

Good luck with everything.

Stephen

# Alex Dresko said on March 30, 2011 08:54 AM:

I feel like my career got started with the help of 4 guys. Thanks, man.

# BobT said on March 30, 2011 08:58 AM:

Scott,  

Back in 1999-2000 I was given a project with an virutually impossible deadline.  Had it not been for your site, I would never have made it.  I still used 4Guys last year for getting an old ASP (Classic) web service updated and operational.  Thank you.

Bob

# Fred Beiderbecke said on March 30, 2011 09:02 AM:

Good luck and thanks for all the articles.

# Mike Walsh said on March 30, 2011 09:05 AM:

Cheers for all your work. It's always good news when one of your articles comes up in a search.

# Shiju Alex said on March 30, 2011 09:13 AM:

I am not much of a coder. But I did few lines of ASP code initially.

And that does mean I did look into the 4Guys site for one thing or the other.

Thanks.... and best of luck

# Scott said on March 30, 2011 09:16 AM:

Scott - I've learned so much from your articles over the years.  Unlike a lot of other sources, the articles were complete, functional and provided with a great deal of explanation.  Best wishes.

# Molly Fagan said on March 30, 2011 09:19 AM:

When I first started learning ASP.NET back in 2004, it was the 4Guys web site where I learned the most.  As far as VB to C#--I've never been one to get hung up on the syntax when researching problems--when one finds a solutation to their problem, it can be translated into any language.  Thanks so much for your contributions over the years.

# DebbieD said on March 30, 2011 09:19 AM:

Good luck in the future.  Your articles helped me immensely while going to school and many years after on the job. Thanks.

# Erik VanLandingham said on March 30, 2011 09:23 AM:

Great run and inspiring story Scott. We all owe you alot!

# Pete S said on March 30, 2011 09:32 AM:

Like others have said, 4Guys was a huge help to me when starting out. I guess I've fallen into the Google trap too in recent years but I always feel relieved when 4Guys shows up in the search results as I know I'll get good advice. Thanks for everything.

# DW said on March 30, 2011 09:36 AM:

Scott, YOU are the reason I chose VB as my preferred .NET language. I did make the C# switch before your articles did but nonetheless your articles helped me get raises at work and transition from an HTML guy to a .NET programmer. You rock! Thanks!

# Stephen Metcalfe said on March 30, 2011 09:40 AM:

I thought I recognised the name that popped up in my RSS feed! Scott, I add my thanks to those already posted here. 4guys was one of the go-to sites for ASP, and then ASP.Net for me. Your writing style was easy to read and understand, and the articles were informative and complete. Even today, if I see 4guys pop up in my Google results, I know it's a quality link to follow.

That's the point though, isn't it? I enjoyed your article here, and it has been good to get to know more about the man behind the site. Cheers, all the best, and I will be watching this site with interest.

# masodo said on March 30, 2011 09:43 AM:

Over the past several years I have visited 4Guys countless times. I was not what you would call an avid follower of the site. However, if I ever needed to search out a solution to an ASP related dilemma I would always view the site of 4GuysFromRolla as an AltaVista search result as golden. Thanks a million and best wishes Scott. Great Work!

# Marc Arbesman said on March 30, 2011 09:49 AM:

I started a consulting firm after graduting from University Missouri, Columbia, a sister school to UMR.  4Guys was my goto site in our more maverik days of building web applications. Reading this article, I can't help romantizing in my head about the tail end of the boom and my hopes and dreams at the time.  I spent many weekends rummaging through your site to find the one article that would allow me some peace for the evening.  

My company has now grown to over 20 people and our business is thriving.  It's been a fun road with your site along side.  Thanks for everything.  

# Brian Swiger said on March 30, 2011 09:51 AM:

Thanks Scott for your contributions over the years!  I've used 4Guys as a resource in my early days of ASP and then the transition to .NET.  I appreciate all the information you've shared with others and continued education to the community.  Appreciate all your efforts.

# zverinjak said on March 30, 2011 09:52 AM:

Tnx from Serbia, Scott Mitchell, all the best wishes for the future :)

# Lisa Morgan said on March 30, 2011 09:53 AM:

Thank you for everything you've done. 4Guys was always one of my first stops for ASP.Net, even after I gained lots of experience. That was because of the quality of the writing. You managed to make clear what in other hands sounded like a paraphrase of the MSDN help files. I look forward to reading your writing on my Kindle and through my Safari Books Online subscription. You continue to have an impact!

# Steve Dorris said on March 30, 2011 09:55 AM:

Scott,

When the need for my Assembler and Cobol skillset began winding down following Y2K, I went to 4Guys to learn all about this new web-based technology. You provided an excellent resource to jump-start the next phase in my career.

I'll continue to follow your future articles. Continues success!

# Laurie said on March 30, 2011 09:56 AM:

I still love 4guysfromrolla....I am still learning and I use google for searching for what I need.  But, when I get a hit on 4Guys, I know I am going to find what I want.  I am now also going away from VB (kicking and screaming I might add) toward C# so I will continue to look for your writings.

# Pete Ward said on March 30, 2011 09:56 AM:

I couldn't even begin to guess how many times I have consulted 4Guys and your articles tip etc in particular. So I would like to wish you nothing but success in the future and of course a big thank you...

# Terry said on March 30, 2011 09:56 AM:

Scott, many thanks for the past, best wishes for the future, from a VB.NET developer who just retired (so I was there from the start...)

# Leandro said on March 30, 2011 09:58 AM:

Totally inspiring.

Your generosity in sharing your knowledge helped me in my career and family!!

Thank you from Argentina.

# Jim Starwood said on March 30, 2011 10:00 AM:

I was a longtime user of of your site... and really only stopped utilizing it a couple of years ago.  It certainly helped me solved countless problems in creating our deliverables on that platform. Very few articles were of unusable quality.

Yes, the time to go has certainly been long overdue, but as another poster has poised, you've made your mark in history. Among many other ASP/.Net developers, we certainly need to chime in our appreciation for the product you tirelessly constructed. Thank you.

# Chris Walker said on March 30, 2011 10:09 AM:

Like a few said before, I hardly ever comment on blogs but I felt I needed to on this one.

Scott - Whenever I "Googled" on a topic and found a hit on 4Guys, I always selected that first because I knew it would be clear and  more importantly- accurate. Thanks for all of the virtual help over the years and good luck in your next endeavour.

Chris

# RT said on March 30, 2011 10:24 AM:

Sorry to see you go... it was *because* most of your stuff was in VB that we used your site - When the shop is VB, that's what you use.  Thanks for all your efforts

# Tom F said on March 30, 2011 10:25 AM:

As always, I enjoyed reading your writes. Thanks again.

# Chip Taylor said on March 30, 2011 10:28 AM:

Scott,

  I've learned more from 4Guys than from all the ASP/Net courses I have taken!  Your site was always the first I turned to when I had a problem, needed to learn something new, or just wanted to keep up to date.  It was always #1 in my Favorites list.  Thanks for all you have done for the community and I wish you nothing but the best in your future ventures.

# Eric said on March 30, 2011 10:31 AM:

I'm one of those people who "used to visit 4Guys" a lot in the past but not as much anymore.  Thanks for all the memories and your time.

# Carlos Baptiste said on March 30, 2011 10:34 AM:

4Guys has been a tremendous resource for me in my programming career. It had become synonymous with ASP programming. I truly appreciate all that 4Guys and you, Scott, have made possible for me.

# Kurt Wimberger said on March 30, 2011 10:36 AM:

Scott:

Thanks so much for 4Guys. Without the site I would NOT have a career now. Your professional management of the site, and gracious offerings of help, are greatly appreciated. I don't know you IRL, but I feel as if you and 4Guys have been my most valuable teachers. Glad you'll be around longer.

Namaste

Kurt

# MBielski said on March 30, 2011 10:42 AM:

I knew the end was nigh when I got the email about the 4Guys newsletter being wrapped into another one. I've learned a lot from your writings. You inspired me and taught me from afar, and for that I am very thankful. I'll look for your presence on the other websites you've mentioned, as well as any new books you happen to publish.

# TooSad said on March 30, 2011 10:43 AM:

Ah.. damn it !    Scott, your articles have been THE BEST over the years and those of us that work daily in asp will miss the hell out of them.  

Good luck and hope to find you writing your fingers off SOON !

# Robin said on March 30, 2011 10:44 AM:

I'm where I'm at in my career because of you. I professionally grew up with you!

# David Hill said on March 30, 2011 10:53 AM:

Scott -

I develop and support classic ASP pages for a very back-end department of a large company. I can't tell you how many times I've been saved by articles from your site. I've often wondered who was behind it - thanks for the history.

I found it odd that ads were creeping all over the page, especially when they are squat in the middle of an article. It reminds me of when my nieces come home from school with an assignment to sell chocolate bars - probably a financial necessity, but still outside what I expect from an educational facility.

However, I really appreciate the education I've gotten from your site. Thanks very much for starting it, and best wishes for the future.

# Todd Renner said on March 30, 2011 10:54 AM:

Scott- Thanks for 4Guys - You've saved me tons of time, and everything was always explained way better than anywhere else.  I continue to use it, and will until it is gone...don't care about the look...content rocks!  

Know this, you've made a difference.  Thank You!

# Mad Myche said on March 30, 2011 10:57 AM:

Well wishes on your future. I have been using 4Guys since about 2001 for both ASP and .Net.... it is one of the few bookmarks I have in my browser, always looking at the articles of the week. It has been an especially handy resource as my current employer is primarily ASP based and has only recently begun migrating to the .Net platform

# E Isaac said on March 30, 2011 11:43 AM:

I learnt alot from you. Thank you.

# Mike said on March 30, 2011 11:56 AM:

Your articles have helped me so many times. I give you partial credit for my ability, as a developer, to support myself and my family. I cannot thank you enough. I'll be on the lookout for your future articles on other sites. Best of luck.

# Hima Vejella said on March 30, 2011 12:37 PM:

Scott, All the best for all your future. Miss your articles in 4guysfromrolla.

You are an inspiration to the dev community. I love your articles and the way you write.

# Tom Hamilton said on March 30, 2011 01:03 PM:

Thanks Scott, I've learned much from the 4Guys site, and have greatly appreciated your work and writing.  Like you, I moved from VB to C# having been in this field over 30 years now starting with FORTRAN IV.  If you come to Sacramento, I'd like to get you to speak at our User Group - thanks again

# Graham Cottle said on March 30, 2011 01:15 PM:

It's a shame when good things come to an end. I've often found very useful things on the site. Hopefully, it won't die too quickly.

Best wishes for future endeavours

# BZ said on March 30, 2011 01:21 PM:

I still have some articles from 4guys bookmarked from way back in the day. I never leave comments in blogs....but had to say thank you! Good luck!

# Keith Cromm said on March 30, 2011 01:24 PM:

My hat off to you, Scott.  It's not that I *USED* to go to 4Guys, I still do.

Good show.

If we developers gave you a penny for every time we used your sight to learn something, I'm sure you'd be up there (fiscally) in the Billionaire's club.

Curious: any way to get a complete archive of 4Guys?

# Mark Blom said on March 30, 2011 02:00 PM:

As a Dutch .NET developer I have learned so much from your articles on 4guysfromrolla! Your articles were always a lot of fun to read as they were clean and to the point. But most importantly, they were all dedicated to real-world issues.  Those are the reasons that I kept on following you thoughout the years. This era may have ended but I am looking forward to all the good stuff that may be ahead of us!

# Gus Gustafson said on March 30, 2011 02:55 PM:

I have been a professional programmer longer than you have been alive.  However, in the 2005 I desperately needed guidance in using the .NET data controls.  Your book proved its worth repeatedly.  The 4GuysFromRolla site added to my knowledge.

Scott, I cannot tell you how much your work influenced and guided me.  Good luck in your future endeavors.  May they be as fruitful as your 4GuysFromRolla success.

# Neale said on March 30, 2011 03:14 PM:

Wow. This is sad.

The things I learnt from your site are things I will never forget. In the days before forums and stack overflow, I spent loads of quality time on 4guys.

Your site is / was / will always be a part of development history.

Showing you all the best for the future.

# Richard said on March 30, 2011 03:29 PM:

Like many people, I used to read your articles all the time. The main reason I stopped visiting 4GuysFromRolla was because I'd unsubscribed from the newsletter, so I wasn't getting the regular notification of your new articles.

The reason I unsubscribed from the newsletter was that, once Internet.com had taken over, it started crashing Outlook. >:(

I don't know what they'd done to it, and I assume the bug in Outlook was eventually fixed, but I didn't want to risk it. A newsletter which crashes your email client is one that doesn't get read!

Anyway, good luck, and I'll look forward to seeing your new articles on better sites!

# Jeff Walker said on March 30, 2011 03:39 PM:

Scott,

Thanks for all of your articles over the years. I have relied on 4Guys since late 2000, and still go there first today.

Good luck in the future!

# Zack Jones said on March 30, 2011 03:48 PM:

Funny thing -- just last week I unsubscribed from the 4Guys newsletter after seeing the new format. Like many other posters I've learned a TON of stuff from 4Guys and even had an article published on the site. I wish you all the best in with your future writings, Scott and if you ever do another tutorial series I'd be happy to help review it.

# bhupendra said on March 30, 2011 03:56 PM:

Sad to see you go, it was till today site i use to visit almost everyday..

# luca said on March 30, 2011 04:08 PM:

Scott thx many! You are a great writer. Good luck!

# Sandpointguy said on March 30, 2011 04:26 PM:

Hi Scott

Wow, sorry to see you go, but so much of what you said is me.  Back in my classic asp days, I lived on 4guys.  Now I google, often going to stackoverflow and am consistently irritated by the very poor quality of what I read there.  And I always ask myself "why didnt I go to 4guys first?".  I guess in part its because the microsoft sites have gotten so much better, in particular the "how to" videos.

Good luck in your future, and thanks much for all the help. And for putting the "what is with that name?" to rest :-)

# KristinLaura said on March 30, 2011 04:35 PM:

Scott - I think I still have a hard-copy of your 5-billion part series on the classic ASP DataGrid.  It was my bible.  Just this week I replaced that old application based on your series with a new ASP.NET app.  Your code was rock solid and lasted a decade.  Thanks for sharing your knowledge, and best wishes in your new ventures!

# Eros Zica said on March 30, 2011 05:38 PM:

Scott, i'm yet another guy who learnt a lot reading your articles at 4Guys. Thank you! Its a turning point in your life indeed, times are changing, enjoy it!

# Dave Boross said on March 30, 2011 05:59 PM:

Scott,

I have been visiting your site from pretty much from when I discovered what is now called classic ASP. I have learned so much from it. You have a wondeful writing style that gets the message across very clearly. Whenever I couldn't understand something from another site, I would search to see if you had written on the topic becuase I knew you would present it in a very understandable way. Thanks again and all the best to you!

# JFM said on March 30, 2011 07:15 PM:

Thanks and Thanks again!

# Gopinath said on March 30, 2011 07:53 PM:

This is the site I used to go for ASP and some ASP.NET especially if I want to read something in detail. Thanks for all the articles. Wish I could take the time and share my knowledge. Now-a-days I'm parked at Stack Overflow.

# Stephen said on March 30, 2011 08:57 PM:

I never knew 4guys was sold, but come to think of it, it was about 2001/2002 when I stopped using it. Before then it was my favorite asp site. Thanks for all the hard work. You four have taught me a lot; even if one of you is depressed, another overjoyed, and the other two of you are real jerks. Somebody once asked me, as we were discussing the difference between 4guys and 15secs, "it's easy to know how 4guys got their name, but how did 15secs get their name?" I responded with, "Maybe it took them 15 seconds to come up with a name?"

# Mike Langley said on March 30, 2011 09:55 PM:

Scott,

Your site has been a becon of knowledge to all who have dared to venture to 4Guys. I remember many times where I'd failed to find information I needed for a project in some book I had on my self because it was so poorly written they failed to mention some peice of vital information. All it took to solve the issue was one trip to 4Guys and I could spend the next hour solving the issue.

For that and the many developers you helped to guide along their way I think you and wish you all the best in the future. I look forward to reading your future content.

Mike

# emet said on March 30, 2011 10:29 PM:

Scott,

You sir are a credit to Microsoft based web development.  I would come to your site directly before the emergence of Google and then continued to click the 4guys' links in the search results because YOUR SITE NEVER LEFT ME IN  A BIND WHEN I NEEDED SOLID INFORMATION.  It wasn't until i read this post that the site lost relevance.  I was on the site last week looking up the membership provider for asp.net.  GOOD STUFF RIGHT UNTIL THE END.

I always thought Rolla was a city in California.  The look of the site didn't matter because I was too busy looking for the answers that were ALWAYS THERE WHEN I NEEDED THEM...ALWAYS.  A few blogs are half as good as 4Guys but they lack the consistency.  You spoiled me!  Codeplex is good and so is Stackoverflow but you have to ferret and weed out the less than credible inforamtion.  4Guys got right down to business.

If you are ever in Atlanta look me up and the beer and steaks are on me!

# DLH happens! said on March 30, 2011 10:41 PM:

Like many coders, I went to you 4Guys many times while learning .NET, and I really appreciate it. Given the state of the economy, I am still struggling to start my career as a programmer, but I dug down deep all the way through college because of you and just a handful of other websites.

Thank you!

# Christopher Anderson said on March 31, 2011 12:01 AM:

Great stuff - i had always wondered your connection to 4guysfrom 'roll-uhh' (my pronunciation) since i first came across your work on or around seeing you present to a user group in San Diego - figured you were just a blogger/contributor, now feel bad i didn't do the research.  lived and breathed 'classic' ASP and 4guys from ~98 to 2001, 2002-ish while working internships, then consulting projects.  Whatever web apps look like today, 10 years from now, or 100 years from now - you have made a mark in many peoples' careers with your work to help others understand this technology and make the best of themselves.

# Deependra Solanky said on March 31, 2011 01:57 AM:

When I have started to learn ASP.NET in 2005, most of things I learned from you. Thanks for your great articles and best of luck for your future assignments.

# Bill Woodruff said on March 31, 2011 06:44 AM:

An excellent and entertaining "swan song," Scott ! Not without poignancy, but without rancor, which is very pleasant (and too rare ?) to find these days.

Many thanks for your many excellent articles on 4-from-R, and I look forward to following you in your new "incarnation."

best, Bill

# Tony said on March 31, 2011 08:16 AM:

Scott,

Thank you. I learned a lot from you over the years. VB.NET was my language choice so I benefited big time. I've often wondered how you came to be so prolific. I'm sorry it's come to an end. I'll keep an eye out for your other work.

Thanks a lot

Tony S

# Chad Meigs said on March 31, 2011 08:27 AM:

Thanks Scott for the hard work, the education and for 4Guys. I look forward to reading you elsewhere in the future.

# Julio Gonzalez said on March 31, 2011 09:01 AM:

Thanks for your educational efforts over these years!

Best of luck on your new endeavours!

# James said on March 31, 2011 09:20 AM:

4guys is my favorite site and looked forward to the articles showing up each week in Google Reader.  Thanks for all the work you put into it.  I hope you continue to do relevant article series on other sites.  Your writing style is the best out there!

# KyleK said on March 31, 2011 09:37 AM:

I am a self-taught .NET developer who stumbled across your articles many years ago, both on 4Guys and asp.net, and it forged the foundation for my career progression into a Senior .NET Developer/Architect for a major international company. Your articles were always timely, succinct, and enlightening. My best to you with whatever life holds next. My only hope is that you will still find time and an avenue to continue writing tutorials and tips in the future.

# Kevin said on March 31, 2011 02:32 PM:

Thanks for the great articles and ideas!!

# Orry Rotem said on March 31, 2011 04:59 PM:

Many many thanks from yet another developer that found so many answers and insight on 4Guys....  And Sandpointguy hit it dead on center ... "what is with that name?"..

Best wishes Scott

# Rajeev Nair said on April 1, 2011 08:19 AM:

Thanks much, Scott. For all the great articles on 4guys! In fact, the one article that saved my life was that on MSDN about ViewState. It was a life-saver indeed (yeah, I said that before) :)

ALL THE BEST, SCOTT!

# MisterJames said on April 1, 2011 04:00 PM:

There are things that could never have been without their muse.  Cheese has its cream.  American Pie has its apple.  Potato pancakes have, well, the potato.

I'm glad the industry isn't mourning the loss of a such a great source of info, but rather we get to encourage you in your years ahead.

Side note: the site likely would've remained relevant longer had you responded more diligently to all the "plz hlp me n0w quix. it s an emergcy!" requests. ;o)

Like one of the others who posted here, I recently got smacked with a dose of the 90's.  Tearing down a project for an old employer (while working at a new) I just decommissioned work no undoubtedly based on your writing from over a decade ago.

Cheers and best to you in the years ahead.

-mj

# Lakshminarayanan said on April 2, 2011 03:54 AM:

Thanks Scott for all the articles you had posted. 4GUys had been my referring site from 2000 onwards. As you posted the reasons, it has slowly faded out due to other reasons. My favorite articles include asp paging and the series on gridview in asp.net

All the best ScottMitchell!

# John F(New Zealand) said on April 3, 2011 05:25 PM:

Hey Scott,  Great article.  As many have said, I practically learnt ASP.Net from your site.   Although a good friend of mind forced me down the C# route, so the VB thing was a bit of a hassle.  BUT, more often than not the answer was still there.  In a way VB isnt another languge, more like a different accent.

You site is still helping me to this very day, if i 'google' a problem and see a post on 4Guys, a little voice in the back of my head goes "YES!".  I hope the content never goes away, its a life saver !!

All the best.

# Webdroid said on April 3, 2011 06:44 PM:

One word ...

THANK YOU! :)

# Javier Callico said on April 4, 2011 12:43 PM:

Thanks so much Scott, for your excellent articles and for sharing the site's history with us.

I've used articles from 4GuysFromRolla as reference countless times since 2001.

I always wondered who were the other 3 guys since you were the only one authoring the articles, now I know.

All the best and hope to keep reading your articles somewhere else.

# Yousaid said on April 4, 2011 05:06 PM:

70 % of what I know of programming I probably learned from your site. I still visit the site weekly. I don't really think that the prevalence of C# had much to do with the decline if any.

Rather, I do believe that it was the other factors you listed.

I am very confident you will reemerge “somewhere” perhaps with another blog or website  dedicated to the continuation of the great articles you are known for.

I will consider your absence a long vacation, but until you start “something” new, I will  keep Googling for great articles from 4Guys.

Known Brands don’t fade, they just regroup.

I wish you the best. I have learned an awful lot from you !!

yousaid

# Egman O. Sanit said on April 5, 2011 02:21 AM:

Thanks so much Scott, I learned much from 4Guys and your articles...

Thank you..

# .NET DEVELOPER said on April 5, 2011 09:45 AM:

Thank you for your contributions. Your articles were short and precise. I always looked for the article which was easy to understand and comprehend. I will look for you in other blogs hereon.

In the meanwhile, wish you all the best.

# Michael said on April 5, 2011 11:15 AM:

I visited your site from .NET 1.0 through today and I have to say that your articles always showcased good writing and good demonstrations of how do things the right way.  I do agree that you were a little late to the party for JQuery and MVC but that's O.K.  

I must say that you should not stop writing because the community really loves your frequent contributions.  Perhaps you can keep doing more articles on this blog instead.  This blog as well as the 4Guys site is something I would visit 3-4 times a week just to see if there was anything new and it would be refreshing to see this blog updated more.

After reading the backstory to 4Guys, it sounds to me like 4Guys wasn't 4Guys for very long at all.  Do you still keep in contact with the 3 other guys?

# Don said on April 5, 2011 11:39 AM:

Scott, you have helped my career in countless ways and for that I cannot say thank you enough.  I look forward to new articles on this site in both VB and C#.  You have done an amazing job in providing hard earned knowledge and sharing it in a humble fashion.  Thank you again.

# Steve Smith said on April 8, 2011 10:57 AM:

Wow, Scott.  I'm late to the party on this one.  I remember when we first met in New Orleans, a LONG time ago.  I actually knew where Rolla was, having been to Ft. Leonard Wood for my Engineer Officer Basic Course in 1998, while you were right up the road, though neither of us knew it then.  I remember looking at 4Guys for inspiration and ideas while working on ASPAlliance.com, and I remember being very jealous of you for having gotten a big payout (I imagined, anyway) from Internet.com *and* even better, getting to continue to write for the site and get paid.  Meanwhile I had to keep on working at my day job, just doing ASPAlliance.com on the side.  Like 4Guys, ASPAlliance has withered a bit with age, though for different reasons.  I'd love to chat with you sometime about your regrets and what you'd have done differently if you had it to do over again.  Good luck and congrats on having provided such a great resource for so many years!

# Salman said on April 8, 2011 03:10 PM:

I have to say Scott, 4guys was one of the few sites I used to read back in the day, looking forward to your work whatever and wherever it may be :)

# Yonggang said on April 8, 2011 10:28 PM:

Scott, good luck in your new journey.

I really like your new article "Creating-an-Up-and-Down-Voting-User-Interface", thanks.

# Will C said on April 18, 2011 01:08 PM:

Scott

Thanks for all the years of Asp and  .net articles! You have and continue to be the preferred source for anything in this realm.

Will

# Jeff said on April 21, 2011 12:11 AM:

Scott,

Just wanted to say a big THANK YOU for the MANY times you bailed me out of a tough problem, and provided numerous articles that I used to teach myself programming. Using many of your articles, I went from being a hobbyist to paid developer, earning a decent side income developing websites.

The quality of your work and diligence in writing creative, relevant articles each week for so many years was a tremendous asset to asp/.net programmers worldwide. Particularly, for me, was your writing on database-driven sites, which were always excellent.

You have a true talent to mix the art of programming and excellent writing. I wish you well in your future endeavors and look forward to the next '4guys'!

# Dave said on April 27, 2011 08:42 AM:

I've spent the past 4-5 years loving and hating your articles.  Loving them because they were always short, to the point, easy to digest, and valuable.  Hating them because I used to work for a idiot jerk with the same name. Oh well...guilty by name-association.

Thank goodness I just subscribed to your blog, otherwise I would have missed this news.  Best of luck and I look forward to further postings...Mr Scott Person-with-the-same-name-of-someone-I-despise Mitchell. :)

# Luis said on April 27, 2011 02:47 PM:

Scott,

Gracias por todos los articulos de 4Guys, aprendi mucho de ellos y hasta ahora los reviso cuando quiero encontrar algo bien redactado.

Thank you again!

# Sadimaws said on May 7, 2011 04:59 AM:

Nice article Scott. Any idea about the fate of the 4 guys website? Is it being shut down? I'm not able to access it at the moment and wondering...

# Ken Jackson said on May 13, 2011 12:30 AM:

Scott,

Thank you SOO very much.  I have read your articles for many years and learned a lot.   Just happened upon your site from said "search engine" and wanted to see what you were up to and sad to see you saying goodbye to your "baby".

Good luck in all your future endeavors.

# Val S said on May 18, 2011 04:49 PM:

Scott,

Thanks so much for your excellent site - you're right I so used to live on your site few years ago when I was first learning asp and then asp.net! I just stumbled across this article as I was searching for something about validators on Google but I put in 4guysfromrolla as well as I knew you could explain it more simply to me! Good luck for the future!

# Adron said on September 30, 2011 12:22 PM:

Thanks Scott! I have learned a lot from the 4guysfromrolla.  Good luck on your new endeavor...

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